Walt Whitman

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Posts by Walt Whitman

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  33

  What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual"

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  many people distance themselves from formal religion but say that they are a "spiritual" person.. .

  similarly theists talk about the "spirit" as if it is something that is self-evidently true.. .

  i wonder if anybody would like to have a go at defining what they mean by these words?

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  Walt Whitman

  Why limit the parameters of "so called" spirituality? After leaving the oppressive confines of the WTS, I believed I felt no "spirituality," even though I examined many churches and religions. Non-JW friends would reassure me that I was not "religious" but "spiritual." As an ex-JW, what did that mean? Because of my background -- I could feel no spirituality.

  Then I discovered secular spirituality -- firstly, via, scholar Daniel Dennet. He said, "I have times when I am just transported with awe and joy and a sense of peace and wonder at whether its music or the arts or just a child playing ... . I think that people make a mistake of thinking that spirituality has anything to do with either religious doctrines or with immateriality or the supernatural. The world is a stunningly interesting and glorious place...."

  According to one source, secular spirituality emphasized humanistic qualities such as love, compassion, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, contentment, responsibility, harmony, and a concern for others.
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  151

  Why do I no longer get attacked and persecuted by the demons, since I left JW,s ?

  by pedal power in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  most jw.s really believe that they ( as we once did ) are promoting gods will, but what if they really are ?

  is it possible that god is supporting them even though they (governing body ) lie, because most jw,s are ignorant of the lies told on their behalf, ?.

  when i was a jw i got attacked by the demons bigtime, but not now, and i can only assume that they (demons ) are happy that i am no longer a jw and are now leaving me alone, cant think of any other reason, has god ever supported a group who were similarly found wanting ?.

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  Walt Whitman

  I can remember the demon/Satan indoctrination from an early age (1960s onward). I heard so many experiences from the platform and from JWs about demon experiences. From this thread it's obvious that people might not want to rationally appraise their "supernatural experiences." For some reason they're too important to investigate and relinquish.

  I remember as an early teen spending the night at a worldly best school friend. (They lived a few houses away, the father was a college professor/anthropologist and my mother liked them.) To my horror the older sister brought out her new ouija board and wanted us to play. I reluctantly acquiesced. When it came my turn to ask a question, I asked "When will the world end?" With our hands together, it said "1975." Holy crap!

  That night I was sure demons would consume me and steal my brain. Well, I awoke in the middle of bad dream and discovered I couldn't move. I was frozen. I tried to call out to Jehovah, praying for forgiveness for messing with demonism. I felt pressed to the bed, totally immobile. Eventually I could move. I gathered my things together and walked home in the early morning leaving a note on my friend's kitchen table saying I was feeling ill.

  I was sure it was a demonic experience. Some years later I was educated that it was a common case of SLEEP PARALASYS. A period in the sleep state where the body is immobilized. I have had one subsequent sleep paralysis experience. I was worried about one of my grown sons. In a dream he was calling out to me, as a child, I awoke to go to his aid -- but was completely paralyzed, unable to move.

  The mind and brain are complex and its perceptions are beyond us. Demons are part of that ancient mythological part of the brain that tries to make sense of the unexplainable.
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  13

  Juneteenth Celebration

  by snowbird in

  1. social
  2. current

  juneteenth, a portmanteau of the words june and nineteenth, is an african-american celebration that commemorates the date of june 19, 1865, when union general gordon granger notified the slaves on galveston island, texas that they were free, in fact, had been free since january 1, 1863.. there will be a gathering in the little park near my house on saturday, june 21. for the first time, i plan on participating.

  it will be a celebration of my own liberation from the chains of the wts.

  i just wanted to share.

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  Walt Whitman

  Have a wonderful time today, Snowbird.

  The first time I'd ever heard of Juneteenth was with the posthumous release of Ralph Ellison's long-awaited second novel of the same name in 1999.
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  55

  Saturday Morning Musings ...

  by snowbird in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  one hot, hot thursday, in july of 1987, i worked a half day, drove from wilcox county to mobile county to pick up a sister, then hit i-10 for new orleans to attend the convention which began the next day.. the evening traffic was unbelievable; when i finally arrived and pulled into our hotel parking lot, i was shaking like a leaf in the wind.

  we checked in, and after showering, i fell into bed and slept like a drunk person.. the next morning, friday, was a complete blur as we made our way to the superdome.

  i don't remember anything that was discussed that day, just the searing heat as we returned to the hotel.. after a long shower, i again fell into a deep slumber.

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  Walt Whitman

  All in all, I rather enjoyed the assemblies as a kid. It was the family vacation. Also, for most of my grammar and middle school years I was the only witness in my classroom. Had to stand up and not say the words to the pledge of allegiance all alone. Yes, there were other witness kids at my school, same grade, but they were always placed in other classrooms. So, at an assembly you suddenly you had all these kids from other congregations. It was fun to socialize between sessions with the other nerds.

  I also tended to be studious. Took copious notes. Always tried to pick out the most salient point(s) in talks. Kept my assembly notes in distinct notebooks; included the assembly program; and if I could find it -- any articles about the assembly in the local newspaper. Yes, Walt was a boring kid. Walt had no social life except meetings and field service.

  But then I grew up, got married, and the 1980s came. Then the WTS became suspicious, distrusting and paranoid about anything or anyone who was different. Individual inquiry beyond WTS texts became verboten. The '80s were really the beginning of the end for me as a JW.

  Being the good Stepford christian I understood it was required I go to assemblies. Then there were too many questions and observations about how the WTS had morphed into this giant, cold-blooded machine -- and one that had no heart. My wife stopped going to assemblies before I did. So for a few years I went alone.
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  33

  Something that has helped me understand why people continue to go to church

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more i realized how ridiculous religion as a whole is the more i wondered why so many people even bother to continue going to church.. but someone on this board made a comment recently that has stuck with me- it's something that i could never relate to because i was brought up a jw.

  and maybe many people here have trouble relating too for the same reason.. the comment was simple: people go to church because they enjoy it.

  it was a new thought to me because as a jw meetings have always been such a bland and boring affair.

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  Walt Whitman

  Wow, Designs! Learn something new everyday. All this time I thought he was a monstrous, amorphous, methane cloud lurking behind the Orion Nebula. Thanks for setting straight.[ahah! I've learned how to use these little smiley-faces things]
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  33

  Something that has helped me understand why people continue to go to church

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more i realized how ridiculous religion as a whole is the more i wondered why so many people even bother to continue going to church.. but someone on this board made a comment recently that has stuck with me- it's something that i could never relate to because i was brought up a jw.

  and maybe many people here have trouble relating too for the same reason.. the comment was simple: people go to church because they enjoy it.

  it was a new thought to me because as a jw meetings have always been such a bland and boring affair.

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  Walt Whitman

  Wow! Don't really understand why you're being so hostile and defensive. I'm just participating in a discussion. Does it make you angry when someone discusses religion and it doesn't join your beliefs in lockstep?

  flying high now wrote: Does that prove anything to you, oh believer in the even more farfetched? No.

  Read your comments again. Judgemental, much?
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  18

  Confirmation Bias

  by allelsefails in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've read a lot of crap in my life (not just wts) and i have finally found the phrase to describe almost every religious wrting i've read.

  "confirmation bias" affects how jws look at historical facts, how dems and repubs look at economic facts, or how all people look at information presented to them.

  i still go to meetings every once in a while to make my wife and my boss feel better about me, but sometimes i can't believe how idiotic some things are.

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  Walt Whitman

  Reminds me of the quote from Anais Nin: "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."
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  33

  Something that has helped me understand why people continue to go to church

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more i realized how ridiculous religion as a whole is the more i wondered why so many people even bother to continue going to church.. but someone on this board made a comment recently that has stuck with me- it's something that i could never relate to because i was brought up a jw.

  and maybe many people here have trouble relating too for the same reason.. the comment was simple: people go to church because they enjoy it.

  it was a new thought to me because as a jw meetings have always been such a bland and boring affair.

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  Walt Whitman

  Hi Flying High Now: If you're happy and feel fulfilled -- that's great. Humans are social animals and we tend to like being in communities that makes us feel safe and maybe share a joint purpose and understanding of the world.

  My point was after leaving the JWs, I did try and invest myself in the more progressive Christian religions, e.g., Episcopalian; Presbyterian; Lutheran, United Church of Christ, etc. But just couldn't buy into it. I even visited some fundamentalists churches, including a black church, and while the singing was great, the demonstration of emotionalism and drama was, to me, disingenuous.

  Concerning a belief in god or gods -- is there any empirical evidence that such entities exist?
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  33

  Something that has helped me understand why people continue to go to church

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the more i realized how ridiculous religion as a whole is the more i wondered why so many people even bother to continue going to church.. but someone on this board made a comment recently that has stuck with me- it's something that i could never relate to because i was brought up a jw.

  and maybe many people here have trouble relating too for the same reason.. the comment was simple: people go to church because they enjoy it.

  it was a new thought to me because as a jw meetings have always been such a bland and boring affair.

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  Walt Whitman

  I have to agree with Designs. After a lifetime of being a JW (and really believing it) and then leaving -- I can't understand why someone would surrender a chance at rational thinking and participating in emotional, mental and intellectual freedom to enslave himself once again to fantasies.

  Designs wrote: [I don't know how to do that quote box.] "One thing I've noticed among JWs who Get Jesus or go to another Church is that they swap one set of Theocratic Language for another and now proudly proclaim they have found the Real Jesus."

  After exiting I tried a variety of churches -- yes, they offer community -- even went to the Unitarians, the Quakers and a Buddhist church. (Loved the meditation; couldn't stomach the reincarnation.) Still I felt like I was a willing participant in the "Big Con" or "the god-shaped hole" as Sartre said.

  Designs also wrote: "People need religion or religious sentiments because they just can't fathom being alone and self determined. Its the final frontier and they aren't there yet."

  That is spot on. Some people want or need to be deceived. Also most egos can't confront their ultimate fear of death and one's finiteness -- that the universe can, as it has for eons, exist without them.
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  15

  Johnny got his gun

  by d in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is a scence from a very depressing movie with interesting insight.. http://youtu.be/m5sao9soe10.

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  Walt Whitman